RALEIGH - A visibly furious N.C. State coach Tom O’Brien reacted angrily this morning to comments made about N.C. State by North Carolina interim coach Everett Withers.
During a taped segment with Joe Ovies on 99.9 The Fan that aired Wednesday, Withers took jabs at N.C. State’s academics and said recruits in the state need to know that UNC is the flagship university.
O’Brien responded by referring to UNC officials’ trip to Indianapolis last Friday to appear in front of the Committee on Infractions to answer charges of nine major violations in an ongoing NCAA investigation of impermissible benefits and academic fraud
“Here is a guy that’s on a football staff that ends up in Indianapolis,” O’Brien said at his regularly scheduled post-practice media availability. “. . .If you take three things that you can’t do in college football, you have an agent on your staff. You’re paying your players. And you have academic fraud. That’s a triple play as far as the NCAA goes. So I don’t know that he has anything to talk about or they have anything to talk about. If that’s what people want in their flagship university in North Carolina, then so be it.”
He was asked what he meant by “paying your players.” He indicated that he was referring to the impermissible benefits players received.
“They had players accepting money from somebody,” O’Brien said. “I mean, money is being given from someone to somebody, that’s been documented, right? I don’t know how it got there. Maybe I’m wrong saying that. But those are no-nos as far as the NCAA goes.”
Withers had said recruits need to look at North Carolina’s graduation rates for football players compared to N.C. State’s.
“You’ll see a difference,” Withers said. “. . .If you look at the educational environment here, I think you’ll see a difference.”
According to data provided by the NCAA, North Carolina’s football team had a graduation success rate of 75 percent for the freshman class of 2004, compared to 56 percent for N.C. State.
North Carolina’s federal graduation rate, which does not count transfers or players who left early, was 58 percent compared to 50 percent for N.C. State.
O’Brien said N.C. State’s graduation rate is improving and applauded the school’s academic support program for athletes getting certified in 2010 by the National Association of Academic Advisors for Athletics.
“At our school, A number one, all classes have a syllabus,” O’Brien said. “Our guys go to school. They’re not given grades, and they graduate. It’s a little tougher here, if you have to go to school and you’re expected to have a syllabus and go to class. So I think all our guys earn everything they get here. Certainly our graduates earn everything at this university.”
Ken Tysiac
Thursday, November 3, 2011
O'Brien responds angrily to Withers' comments
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65 comments:
Chapel Hill is the flagship, no one else comes close. Any questions? I didn't think so. save this post.
Hey T.O., how is that QB situation working for you?
What semester is inferiority complex 101 taught in Raleigh? These whiny crybabies take the title as the Easily Offended to new heights.
Our QB is fine, thanks! Russell was obviously great but Glennon is good as well. QB is certainly not our problem this year.
Regarding the other elitest comments...well, we'll just continue to laugh while you scramble around under the NCAA's thumb. Claim whatever you like, but we all know what the true 'carolina way' is.
Well, Obviously those boys at UNC are not real bright as they are 0 for O'Brien. It will become 0-5 after this weekend!
I am sure the two previous comments posted are from people who never attended UNC and are just on the bandwagon like the majority of the school's fans.
Chapel Hill is the flagship for FRAUD!
Angrily? I've never seen TOB anything but cool and collected, sometimes to a detriment. Didn't really sound angry to me, just setting the record straight.
Flagship term isn't used by UNC system, only UNC-CH fans. Maybe flagship means something different in Swahili. I hope there aren't any sales at Wal-Mart this Saturday, Withers might not show up for the game.
Daniel Evans started the streak, and it wouldn't surprise me if Glennon continued where Wilson left off.
does it really matter about this exchange between the coaches, neither one of them will be coaching at these schools next year anyway
this is like mexico going to war with ecuador. irrelevant.
Withers: "blah blah look how great our academics are"
O'Brien: "says the guy who was defensive coordinator during the last 18 months worth of NCAA investigations"
Withers is a moron, it took TOB all of 30 seconds to completely obliterate everything Withers said.
Dear Coach Withers: FYI: It was an NC State student who caught the plagiarism that the UNC Honor Court (oxymoron?) missed! How's that for academics? And graduating with a degree in African American Studies doesn't count.
MooU: 28
Cheaters: 21
NC State...bless their hearts!
At least they have the state fair by their stadium so the carnies know where to go to root for their Alma Mater.
"It's a little tougher here"??? Come on Tom - now you're REACHING....
"Chapel Hill is the flagship, no one else comes close. Any questions?"
When did you arrove at this conclusion?
Frankly, I'm speakless...
THANK YOU, Mr. O'Brien! If UNC didn't have enough motivation from the past four years and their own coach's words, you've just given them a little more to be fired up about.
Bravo.
UNC was the first school in the UNC system - but were designated a liberal arts school while NCSU was setup as an engineering/agricultural school. Both are great schools and this stupid conversation has no real meaning. I think it is funny though and should get the rivalry going for sure!
Actually - Anon @ 1:05 - It's:
MooU: 31
Cheaters: 63
Tied: 6
ACC suspension coming down for O'Brien. Nice job by Withers. O'Brien negatively recruited against UNC for years starting with lying about Davis's cancer prognosis, moving on to Davis's taking other jobs, and ending with the accusations of paying players and it's coming back home to roost this year. UNC 45-Moo U 7
at least if you play football at UNC you NEVER have to worry about paying parking tickets or doing your own papers!
I hate that people are taking the ONE plagiarism case (McAdoo) and applying it to the entire student body. For normal students, UNC is very difficult is ahead of NC State in preventing grade inflation (putting avg GPAs and grade distributions on grads transcripts). The other academic "Fraud" cases revolve around NCAA rules only. The NCAA considers it cheating if a tutor and athlete both look at the same computer screen.
You know what's funny. NC State is considered the "redneck" University, but UNC has by far more redneck fans. Fans who couldn't even get into UNC Pembroke if their lives depended on it. So I just find it funny when UNC fans get into academic arguments with State fans because chances are they didn't and couldn't get in if their lives depended on it.
"MooU: 31
Cheaters: 63
Tied: 6"
I'm sure stats like that make guys like TJ Yates completely forget about going winless against State for their entire college careers.
Well, Duh! This argument was about the athletes' academics, not the general student body.
Redneck Tech
Got DUKE?? WE DO....Basketball is here baby...Who cares about UNC or NC State football...these two programs are irrelevant....GO DUKE!!!!
Who cares? Bottom line: Carolina Sucks. Call us MooU. Be glad we have the fairgrounds near our school. Just understand this. Your school sucks, your students suck, your alumni suck and all the people that buy your garbage at Goodwill suck.
interim coach withers is an idiot.
carolina is better than to have a guy spouting off like that given everything that has transpired with that football program recently.
i respect all schools in this state, any decent coach should too. i feel bad for unc football and what this coach said.
So O'Brien states the FACTS and UNC-CHeat fans are pi$$ed:
So Withers was on the staff when:
- They paid players
- They had an agent on staff
- They committed academic fraud
- Their classes for football players didn’t have a syllabus
- They are handing out grades to players who don’t go to class
You've got to love FACTS.
Withers' comment was ill-advised considering their current scrutiny. I understand that he knows he's not coming back next year so he really has nothing to lose by his comments. He also is probably stoking the fires so his players will be more into this matchup than they have in the past. But sanctions or not his point really isn't that far-fetched or unknown. NCSU has a great engineering program and vet school but other than that they're not known for their academics and their admission averages are fairly mediocre.
Still, bad timing even if he does have nothing to lose.
Know how to make a UNCheat student or graduate mad? Ask them about their job placement rate or average salary compared to NC State! People who choose NC State know what you choose a university for.
Wither's talking about academic standards and he went to App State.
that is rich.
At best, UNC-CH(eat) is the 3rd best college in the state, behind Duke and Davidson
Does North Carolina State have a basketball program too?
"Does North Carolina State have a basketball program too?"
Yes, and it appears you haven't been paying attention recently. We have the #2 class in the country next year. And we're not done yet. Remember good old days when NCSU was the ACC doormat in basketball? Those days are over...
Hmm...1980s and 90's NC State basketball--how easily all that is forgotten. Both schools are susceptible to criticism. The coaches should just hush and let their teams do the talking on Saturday, which has gone from a "meh" game to something with a pulse...
Yeah, I am a graduate of UNC and have two children there now. Withers stepped in a big pile of cow manure.
People can talk crap about the football programs all they want because honestly neither program is good right now. Carolina is under an NCAA investigation and State just plain sucks at football. But you can't honestly sit back and say that state is a better academic university than Carolina. Those type of comments show ignorance and make your comments seem uneducated.
Sounds like Withers is just doing what he said he was going to do:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/01/2739383/uncs-withers-wants-to-give-rivalry.html
Carolina football players have a 75% graduation rate? Or was it 75% of their graduates majored in African American Studies? State football players don't have to stand on a chair to raise their IQ. We don't hold hands nor accept student athletes with an IQ of below 60 (Marvin Austin, James Mcadoo,...)
Duke and Davidson are both private schools.
Even comparing these schools shows ignorance since they offer completely different majors. Both schools rank highly in the majors they offer. As for football, both programs are mediocre, but one had to cheat to obtain mediocrity.
By the way, Chancellor Thorp already apologize to Chancellor Woodson today. Withers is truly making a hole of himself and trying his best to not get hired.
"I'm amphibious.....I can dribble with either hand."
----Former NC State B-Ball player and Rhodes Scholar Chris Washburn
GO TARHEELS I AM A TRUE BLUE CAROLINA FAN THEY MAY HAVE MADE MISTAKS BUT I M SURE IT WASNT ON PURPOSE MOO YOU IS REDNECKS
"By the way, Chancellor Thorp already apologize to Chancellor Woodson today. Withers is truly making a hole of himself and trying his best to not get hired."
Exactly. Even UNC's own chancellor knows Withers' comments were plain stupid.
All you ppl need to do is look at the 2011 US News/World Report university rankings. UNC is in the 20-30 range. State is almost ranked 100. I think that says it all.
UNC: Drama 15
NCST: Bees and Bee Keeping
We all have our slide classes, and despite what any state fan would have you believe, I would wager that less than 20% of students there major in engineering. Many (if not most) are communications majors--at an engineering school. Why not go to a liberal arts college? Never mind, I think we know.
Many if not most are communications majors? You're insinuating that possibly over 50% of the student body at NCSU majors in communications?
I think we all know from which orifice you pulled that "fact"
"All you ppl need to do is look at the 2011 US News/World Report university rankings. UNC is in the 20-30 range. State is almost ranked 100. I think that says it all."
If I teach a class and give everyone A's regardless of the work the students do, does that make my school a great school?
kantstanzya - It was Charles Shackleford who made that statement and it was in reference to shooting with either hand. But no one seemed to notice when Vince Carter said the team did a good job of assimilating the press. Say what? At least we could tell what Shack was trying to say.
Chapel Hill is the Flagship.......at cheating and still not winning championships.
Four straight victories.
Harder to earn a degree from.
Not being investigated for half the NCAA rule book.
Coach is a U.S. Marine.
Our favorite color is not powder blue.
"I'm amphibious.....I can dribble with either hand."
----Former NC State B-Ball player and Rhodes Scholar Chris Washburn"
Fail. That was allegedly Shakleford. I say allgedly because I think its an urban legend. I have never seen that in print (except for monkey boards) and have never heard an audio clip. It's been over 25 years. Nothing. Until I see it in original print or hear the audio, I'm calling it an urban legend.
In any event, I think McAdoofus ("arrove") and Jessey Holley ("speakless") have more than made up for it. And those are in-print verified quotes....
Harder to earn a degree from? Who are you kidding? Where does NC State show up in the U.S. News and World Report?
This is all so pointless. But, for the record, when it comes to admissions of students other than athletes, the standards at N.C. State are clearly lower. Just simply look at your high school's graduating class in any year and you will see that a select group of students gains admission to UNC while a number of lower ranking students obtain admission to State. State has been on some mission to have the largest undergrad school in the State regardless of quality. Agreed that State offers an excellent engineering program but many of their other programs and the students therein are more comparable to Appalachian, Withers's alma mater and where he will coach one day if he is fortunate. Bottom line, if alumni of both schools would stop thinking about sports long enough to focus on how their schools are being screwed by the GOP legislature, our state will be a much better place.
http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-state-universities.asp
NCSU degrees are obviously valued more than UNC degrees based on the compensation they receive coming out of school.
Maybe UNC is harder to get into... maybe more people graduate? Maybe NC State is just harder, and employers recognize that.
So T. O. is spouting truth, but Withers is making a fool of himself? Funny - even this article backs up the statements Withers made with actual facts. It is a fact that UNC has a higher student athlete graduation rate.
Shame on T.O. for reacting like a 4 yr old when Withers simply stated a fact. Shame on the few Carolina fans who don't stand by their school through good and bad.
Love how the state fans are crowing about our record for the last few years instead of disputing what Withers said with actual facts.
We may have had a couple of bad apples, but we're doing what we need to do to correct the problem - unlike schools like Ohio St and Auburn, etc. I would also wager that you would be hard pressed to find ANY college that has 100% squeaky clean athletes and staff in every single sport ever. If the truth were known, I'm sure we'd find mistakes at everyone's beloved schools.
Looking forward to Sat. Go Heels!
M-N
Where did you get this Moo U basketball recruits ranked 2 in nation ?
Carolina, Maryland and Wake are all ranked higher.
Come on man.
You must be looking at old information Paul:
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/classrankings?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings
Regarding the US News rankings people keep pointing to, those are based on thing's like high school guidance counselor's opinions - seriously. It's a joke. unc may well rank higher, but US New's rankings are garbage.
Withers fits right in in Chapel Hill... self-absorbed arrogance..IDIOT
What a misleading headline before the link, "O'Briens says UNC paying players?" NO, he said someone was paying players, while Paul Davis and Uncle Ev were on the watch... Get it straight, or don't report crappy headlines
Just so you know, the overall ranking of a school's undergraduate program is only one indicator the success rate of any individual student graduating from the school. Many NCSU students end up as highly successful professors, lawyers, doctors, managers, etc. and many UNC graduates end up working crappy low value-added jobs. The reverse is, of course, also true.
To the arrogant people bragging about attending the "flagship" school in NC: You are not a genius or special by default just because you did good in high school or got a UNC undergraduate degree. Go make something of yourself and then brag if you still feel the desire.
I read so much useful data above!
I think that O'Brien's attitude and reaction were totally uncalled for, he should control his temper a little bit better to avoid all these types of scandals
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