Thursday, August 14, 2008

Why did UNC schedule McNeese St. over ASU?

Appalachian State coach Jerry Moore was asked recently if the Mountaineers had tried to schedule North Carolina. His response was a mild grimace.

"We never had a chance,” he said. “Charlie (ASU athletics director Charlie Cobb), I know he’s had dialogue with them. I think that would be a great game.”

It won’t happen, despite the fact that with NCAA Bowl Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-A) teams are now allowed to play 12 games, usually no more than one is against a team in the Football Championship Series (formerly I-AA) without hurting its bowl chances.

The Tar Heels chose to play McNeese State, a school in Louisiana.

“Why they’d play McNeese State? I don’t know,” Moore said.

UNC coach Butch Davis has said it’s because his program wants to recruit in that area, and there is probably some truth to that. But the bottom line is that North Carolina was 4-8 last year and rebuilding and Appalachian State has won three straight FCS championships.

If the Tar Heels played the Mountaineers and lost, it would do their image no good—look at how much flak Michigan took when Appalachian State upset the Wolverines last year — and North Carolina is nowhere nearly as talented as Michigan was.

Put simply, area BCS schools are afraid of the Mountaineers. The last time the Mountaineers played a Big Four opponent they lost 23-10 at N.C. State in 2006. They’ve only gotten better since then. They used to play Wake Forest regularly, but the Deacons ended that series after the 2001 season.

During the school’s history, there have been occasional games with Clemson, South Carolina, East Carolina and the Wolfpack. But Appalachian State has never played North Carolina or Duke.

That won’t change this year. Appalachian, though, will play a better program than any of those, opening at LSU on Aug. 30.

- Stan Olson

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

so mabye they will get a win

Anonymous said...

I know you're trying to get hits and stir the pot a little, but your premise is horsesh*t, Stan.

The reason these schools don't play ASU is b/c it does NOTHING for them...regardless of how successful ASU has been in recent years. It won't help recruiting (and yes, Butch Davis is sincere - I know b/c he also cancelled a road trip to Boulder next year I was dying to take with the Heels) in-state or anywhere else, UNC would be expected to win and if they did, great. If not, the fallout would be tremendous - it would absolutely hurt in-state and regional recruiting at a minimum.

Personally, I'd like to see the game too but to say it's b/c BCS schools are afraid of ASU is ridiculous. Check UNC's schedule in recent years - the non-conference foes are in most cases superior teams to ASU, so why aren't they "scared" to schedule them? Teams like Petrino's Louisville squads, Rutgers under Schiano, Utah, UCONN, Notre Dame in Quinn's SR year, Wisconsin, South Florida.

UNC didn't win many of those games, but in order to become a good football team, you aspire to beat quality BCS level teams. Regardless of ASU's success, they are not a BCS school and no BCS school aspires to beat teams from the FCS/I-AA, whatever you want to call it.

Seriously, I was thrilled for ASU in beating Michigan last year, but get a grip people. The Mountaineers are a great team, but no one's skeert either. Frankly, I'm so sick of hearing this argument, there's a part of me that hopes LSU takes you to the woodshed and serves you all the humble pie you need so badly.

Anonymous said...

Spoken like a true "Tarhole" fan

Anonymous said...

mWhen did UNC get a football team?

An App fan said...

For any Tar Heel fans wanting to respond, feel free to borrow from these excuses.

Anything UNC fans can do an AppFan can do better

3. There’s really nothing in it for North Carolina. Which begs the question, what does LSU, Virginia Tech, Georgia and Florida see that UNC doesn’t? Heck, ESPN wants us, even on holidays. (Then again, does UNC really belong in any list which includes “LSU, Virginia Tech, Georgia and Florida”?)

ScurvyDog said...

To "Mr. Typical Tar Heel Fan":

"UNC would be expected to win and if they did, great. If not, the fallout would be tremendous"

What UNC team are you talking about exactly, because the one I know hasn't had a quality season in quite some time and is actually 20-39 since 2003 with no winning seasons.

To be truthful, the "Horrible Heels" WOULDN'T be expected to do ANYTHING against ASU at this point but get their teeth kicked in. They are 20-39 since 2003 and ASU is 52-15, with 3 National Championships, and a QB that could run through the UNC defense like Bo Jackson in Tecmo Bowl.

Guess what? McNeese State is going to hang the same L on you that ASU would have the first game of what's sure to be another disappointing season for you. You ARE scared of Appalachian State, and you have every reason to be. No reason to remain in denial.

mountaineerdynAsty said...

Tar Heel fans are right. UNC is not scared to play App and they do, in fact, have nothing to gain against playing us. It simply shows we have a great football program that has a great chance at winning a game between ASU and UNC. They know losing is a reality, they simply aren't "scared" of it. Mince words however you want to Tar Holes, but what's in the schools best interest, building a local rivalry with a football powerhouse or filling a hole with a school thousands of miles away? If Butch claims recruiting, he is a complete dumb***! So, Butch, you think one game with McNeese St. is going to help you gain a foothold in the football rich state of Louisiana? Yeah, that's realistic. There is plenty of talent and if you want to build your program correctly you do it in-state! Play ASU, beat us, and then you could prove your program is truly for real and you would gain a whole new cast of recruits. Every excuse the Tar Holes come up with is a complete cop-out.

Anonymous said...

New Flash Tarheel fans, McNeese State was 11-0 last year. You'll probably end the day with an 'L"

Seth said...

Heel fans too drunk off their wine and full of their cheese to respond? Here's a thought, try attending a football game without wearing dress slacks, dress shirts and sweater vests. UNC's stadium may outnumber Kidd-Brewer, but not in the passion and noise departments, that's for sure. I think we should schedule Duke and UNC in the same season and beat them both to bring the victory bell to boone!

Anonymous said...

One poster says UNC has nothing to gain from playing asu. OK then, what do they have to gain from playing McNeese? We are both FCS schools that UNC is "expected" to beat and if UNC looses there will be fall out in both cases. At least if ASU beats you we already have a W against a better team and people won't look down on UNC as bad as they will if McNeese beats them. Face it they don't want to risk an L to ASU because we would gain respect in the state and make recruiting harder on the Tar Holes. If butch wants to get involved in recruiting in LA he needs to step up and play LSU like we are not McNeese!

stanolson said...

Guys, scared may have been the wrong word. I meant not in the sense of physical fright, but in the sense of the potential a loss has of damaging the program psychologically. I think the game should be played simply because North Carolina is a key component of the state's university system, as are the Mountaineers, and yet the two have never played. The game would be of great interest to fans across the state...Stan Olson

Anonymous said...

Well it shows why students go to ASU and not UNC.
1. Someone asked "what do they have to gain from play Mc State?" Well that was answered by Coach Davis he wants to recruit in that area (lacks reading and comprehension skills)
2. As one person pointed out while calling us "scared" to face someone who might beat us, Mc State were 11-0. It is not like we are scheduling a scrub instead of you it is a team on par or better than you even though you won the championship. (lacks deductive reasoning) 3. It is T-A-R-H-E-E-L-S not tarholes! (CAN'T SPELL, LOL had to have some fun with it). We have not been the best team in the last few years but I am pretty sure if we played your schedule we would have had equal success or better. Also we always play a very tough schedule before last year I believe we were in the top five of hardest schedules three years in a row and at the beginning of the year. Pretty sure you guys can't claim anything like that. So who's really scared? You guy are champs and beat Michigan, ask VT or Clemson for a game this year since you guys are so ready to play!

Anonymous said...

I can understand UNC not playing ASU, as long as they do not play us, they can always convince themselves that they have a better progam. Sadly, a lot of people in the North Carolina subscribe to this belief. What bothers me is that they will not play lesser programs such as Western Carolina, or North Carolina A@T. These are 2 state prgrams that could really use the money, but instead, UNC would rather give the money to an out of state university.

glmore said...

Whoever said that UNC is scared of playing ASU because they have scheduled Louisville, Notre Dame, and others over the years has a screw loose.....

They are scared! If UNC loses to L'ville or N.Dame, it's not a concern because they were not expected to win....but if they lose to ASU (which could happen), it would be an embarrasment!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Maybe we are putting to much blame on the Heels here. Maybe the Heels wanted to play ASU. But ASU said NO. If ASU beat the Heels - So what they should win. If they played the Heels and lost? Now that would be an embarassment.

Anonymous said...

This is really sad. It is bad enough that the "premier" public institution in our state is afraid to play a decent local team. It's even more sad to hear the Tarholes defend that decision. Maybe they don;t want to hurt their bowl chances? LOL! Look, Virginia Tech, Florida, Georgia and LSU chose to man up and face us. If defending Coach Davis' decision to dodge us helps the Tarholes sleep at night that's fine by me. The good news for them is that basketball season starts soon enough. pathetic....

Anonymous said...

UNC is scared of losing prestige by playing Appalachian. UNC wouldn't play Wake lately if they could help it. In state schools rarely play other in state schools that have a remote chance of beating them. That's why App was on Michigan's schedule last year instead of Central Michigan. A commendable exception would be UGA play Georgia Southern lately. It's really nothing to make fun of UNC about, they have nothing to gain. Yet, as an App fan I think we'd have beaten them at least two of the past three years.

Nunya said...

The Hokies ain't skeert . ASU comes to Lane Stadium 9/3/11. We welcome the Mounties to open the season in 3 years. BTW the holes also refused to play VT ever. since about 1922 because VPI was not on the holes level. I am glad the Hokies are still not on the Holes level. (lol)

BTW Buthcy is 1-6 lifetime against Beamer.

Anonymous said...

Some comments just show the difference between ASU and unc-ch students indeed.
1. Butch Davis schedules Mcneese to gain a recruiting advantage? What, they gain some advantage by playing a team that is at its best, the 5th or 6th most popular football team in its state? I can just see it now, the next felon that unc-ch tries to buy its way into getting in Louisiana is making his decision, hes thinking man, unc-ch is offering me a lot less money than Alabama is, but they DID play McNeese state in 2008, that does hold some sway with me, I think I want to play in baby blue. This just shows the inability of unc-ch people to think for themselves. ASU students, naturally see his BS for what it is, BS, and know that it is Coach speak for I dont get paid 2 million a year to lose to ASU. But if current trends hold, he could lose to us and every other team in the ACC, and still get a hefty raise.
2. McNeese went 11-0 last year, so automatically they are at least as good as ASU. Again, I scoff at unc-ch fans arrogance. Name one team off the top of your head that McNeese played last year? Thats what I thought. Now go look it up and pretend you know somebody they played. Go on, do it. Most unc-ch students dont like to do research, it gets in the way of their far-left obscure causes to fight for (save the pygmy racoon of lesser mongolia!), so their posts are largely from the hip, unresearched and filled with emotion. If you did your research, you would find that McNeeses'schedule was very easy last year, and they lost in the first round of the playoffs. The team that beat them came to Boone the following week, and while making a good showing, the game was never really in doubt.
3. it is actually spelled t-a-r-h-o-l-e-s. Ive never seen it spelled any other way, now go back to saving the pygmy racoon of lesser mongolia, let those in this state that play real football (and attend the finest institution of higher learning in said state) take care of business against LSU, while you(unc-ch) mire in your relative obscurity with McNeese state.

Anonymous said...

Delusional Tarheel Fans Attempt to Defend Chickenhawk Heels ...... More at 11:00.

Anonymous said...

so this year asu is scheduled to play jacksonville, presbyterian, samford, elon, & wcu... and who's talking trash about scheduling? maybe unc will play asu when asu joins a real conference (or division). tarheel fans are usually pretty annoying, but i think these delusional asu fans are worse.

Anonymous said...

Hey ScurvyDog, are you really going to compare ASU and UNC's record given who each team has played over that time span? That's a strong argument.

And what I'm talking about is the fact UNC has ZERO to gain from that game. You probably don't follow football much given some of your comments, but since Davis arrived, our recruiting has been fantastic, garnering Top 25 classes each of those years and starting to get a stronghold in NC again, after all those hideous years of Torbush and Buntino losing out to Amato, Beamer, Fulmer, Spurrier et al. So yes, losing to ASU is obviously a possibility, and yes, it would be very damaging to UNC's recruiting if it happened. Again, NOT scared, just nothing to gain.

And if you're delusional enough to think UNC's going to lose to McNeese State, how about we make it interesting? I'll take whatever sized wager you can muster up a loan for...we'll beat that team by 3-4 TDs.

ASU, you've won 3 NCs in a row in your pitiful little division, so if you're so bad ass, why don't you step up to D1 and play in a real league so we can compare apples to apples? Are you....scared?

Get your licks in before the season starts, Carolina haters, b/c we're not going to be the same doormat you've been used to watching the past several years.

And hey nunya, I'll take some of your action on the 9/20 game in Chapel Hill if you're game. You're lucky you beat us in Blacksburg last year.

Anonymous said...

ECU 34, UNC 31 sort of says it all.

Anonymous said...

UNC has nothing to gain from this game. I don't blame them for not scheduling - it'd hurt to lose to little brother wouldn't it?

But oh wait, Little "Appy" isn't such a little brother anymore. In fact, our football team might be a big brother compared to UNC's at the moment. Carolina doesn't want to lose their prestige image around the state and nation by losing to what their fans and graduates see as a second or third rate institution.

But hey what do I know, I only go to App. Good luck with the Cowboys Tarholes. You'll need it - they were ranked higher than App last season in the playoffs and were undefeated last season.

And to the brilliant person who told us we need to step up - it's not like you sign a piece of paper and BAM you're I-A. You have to for a committee who researches to see if it will benefit the school, you have to have a big enough stadium (which ASU is working on), and a whole bunch of other stuff. On top of that, I believe that the NCAA has not allowed anyone to move up that isn't already in the process of moving until 2011. But that doesn't involve the ACC (a "real" conference) so you probably wouldn't know that.

And to that same poster - check the ego at the door. McNeese St. is gonna come to play.

Anonymous said...

bottom line tarheel fans, you can't dribble a football. butch is scared of playing against armanti edwards.

Anonymous said...

Still waiting for some "put your $ where your mouth is" wagers, but it's awfully quiet out there.

I'll lay 17 against McNeese (they lost their top RB, tackler, sack guy, interception guy, etc. but sure, let's keep talking about last year's squads) and I'll take the VT game straight up for nunya.

And App student, no sh*t Sherlock, but they aren't doing any of the paperwork now are they? Check your facts before you start claiming to be so omniscient.

Anonymous said...

All yall on here dissin my HEELS need to stop. i was happy when app beat mich, dont get beside yourself it aint like app went undefeated after that game against mich, if you played mich again later on you would of lost, you just snuck a sleeping giant that beat fla in a bowl game. the HEELS is on the rise and you know it. Butch is a good recruiter he knows what he is doing. i believe this year my HEELS will beat the mountaineers. and you know it....

Anonymous said...

Never claimed to be omniscient, just stating facts.

Why start all that work when you know nothing can really be done until 2011? It's kind of pointless when it probably can start late next year or early 2010.

Another problem is that moving up wouldn't just effect football - it would be a big change for all sports. Moving up means that ASU has to move from the SoCon to a conference like the CUSA or Sun Belt. Instead of traveling to schools like Davidson, Elon, and UNCG in basketball, we'd have to travel to Memphis, UTEP, Houston, and other schools farther west that App usually goes. This would be a big expense for the athletic department to take on - especially for schools that typically lose money for schools like Baseball, Softball, Soccer, etc.

It's well known that ASU is on the short end of the stick when it comes to state funding. Would the state be willing to cover those new costs? No way.

Anonymous said...

Fair enough App student, but wouldn't it behoove them to start the paperwork now (since I can't imagine that is an overnight process) while the stadium work is on-going?

Your points are certainly valid, but until ASU makes that move, I just don't see how it's possible to make an apples to apples comparison.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't the "it's to help recruiting" excuse make more sense if UNC was playing at McNeese State? How exactly does hosting a team from several states away help your recruiting in that state?

If anything, it helps McNeese. They win, local Chapel Hill kids will have a new school on their "maybe" lists.

Anonymous said...

"It's well known that ASU is on the short end of the stick when it comes to state funding."

Not compared to UNC Charlotte, which has the second lowest state appropriation per student in the system even though it is a more highly rated (and research extensive) school.

Anonymous said...

sour grapes.

unc playing app state would be like Jessica Biel dating barney fife

T said...

Im an asu grad, class and I USED to be a Carolina basketball fan until the UNC crapped out on playing us in football. The Chapel Hill crowd has always thought their mess didnt stink and their comments in this blog prove it even more. As to the question as to why ASU hasn't moved up??? The NCAA won't let us until '11. So Tar heels...get a grip and man up. Name a date and we'll play you and try not to embarrass you

Anonymous said...

As both an ASU and UNC aluum, both main points are valid. UNC has nothing to gain by playing ASU, and a lot to lose as they try to re-emerge on the national stage.

The Tar Heels aren't physically scared of App, but they don't want any part of them either because they don't want to run the very realistic risk of losing to them.

App played NC State a pretty close game in '06 (without Armanti), played LSU a rspectable one in 2005 (14-0 entering the 4th quarter), and used to beat Wake more than half the time.

And App did try to schedule UNC back in the early part of the year, there were a number of stories to that effect on ESPN and other sources.

Anonymous said...

"Not compared to UNC Charlotte, which has the second lowest state appropriation per student in the system even though it is a more highly rated (and research extensive) school"

I dont know which numbers youve looked at, but everything ive seen have ASU as one of lowest in per student funding, also, not to be argumentative, but everything ive seen has ASU as a much higher rated institution for undergraduates then UNCC, while UNCC does have more research.

anonymous said...

App State has no reason to play a football nobody like UNC when they can schedule games with UM, LSU, UGA and UF. Choosing to play the tar heels would be like reading the charlotte observer instead of the NY Times.

As for the misinformed soul who believes UNCC is more highly regarded than ASU, he should read something besides the delusional internet postings of graduates from a school whose primary admission criteria is the lack of a criminal record.

Anonymous said...

If ASU and UNC ever did play each other, it would generate alot of state wide excitment and interest. Fans would pour in. No doubt the ASU program has moved to another level in their football program and at some point they will need to make a move into another conference that would consistently challenge them. For now, they are one of the best football teams in the state and they probably have the best player too in Armati Edwards.

Anonymous said...

Appy, work on beating Wofford and Georgia Southern this year then run your yaps. You have an excellent I-AA program and have had a great 3 year run. (It's only been a few seasons since you were getting drubbed with Wyoming and Georgia Southern putting 50+ points on you before calling off the dogs.) And yes, UNC doesn't want to play you...or Elon, WCU, or any of the other small schools in any sport.

MSU_77 said...

The reason UNC won't schedule ASU is the same reason LSU won't schedule McNeese. Think about it.

packbacker said...

After this season alot of people will respect UNC. This is coming from a non-UNC fan too. They have an abundance of young talent that learned the hard way last year and are ready to blow up. They will beat McDonald's State handily and then proceed to beat Rutgers and VT and that, my friends, you can take to the bank!

Crossfire07 said...

The Cowboys open the season Aug. 30 on the road against the North Carolina Tar Heels. That game will be played about three hours from Boone, N.C., home of Appalachian State, which has won the past three national championships in the former Division I-AA.
Coincidentally, Appalachian State will leave North Carolina for its Aug. 30 season opener at LSU. Whitehead said it seems appropriate.
“They’re coming down to Louisiana,” he said, “and we’re going to North Carolina. Hopefully, we can go up there and do battle, and they’ll come down here and do battle, and maybe we can meet in the end.
“If we make it all the way, I would want to face them.”
McNeese was national runner-up in 1997 and 2002.
“This time we want to do something that’s never been done here,” Whitehead said.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/specialsections/football2008/27086854.html?showAll=y&c=y

Crossfire07 said...

"Boone, N.C., home of Appalachian State, which has won the past three national championships"

the past three national championships in a row. an awesome feat. i hope pp. state comes to La. and makes a damn good showing and pulls off ANOTHER upset.

FormerPokeCenter said...

What the McNeese game does for UNC is to bring what Davis thinks will be an easy victory. It's not the first time he's played McNeese, bringing them to the Orange Bowl when he was at Miami.

The difference, this time, is that he doesn't have (ostensibly) 8 future NFL stars, including Santana Moss.

Our little ole Cowboys will be ready to strap it up and play, just like they have been against Miami, Texas A&M, Nebraska, Kansas State, South Florida, etc.

We put up over 400 yards of offense against Miami, but still got hammered. We led A&M until late the game and the Nebraska contest wasn't decided until midway through the fourth quarter. Kansas State Heisman candidate El Roberson's senior season was ended by clean hit from one of our defensive ends and we led South Florida into the third quarter.

I'm not gonna predict the outcome, but I will tell you this: We'll be ready to go when the ball's kicked off, and the game will definitely be interesting. After trips to Miami and Nebraska, we're not gonna be star struck in Chapel Hill.

I expect the same from the App State/LSU contest. App will be ready to go and LSU better hope their untested QBs are up to the task...

Heaven help you big boys if you look past either one of us...

I love seeing my Pokes line up against BCS schools, but it makes no sense for UNC to shedule us and not take on App State, in their own back yard; while LSU plays App, when there are six I-AA schools inside Louisiana who'd love the opportunity.

From a ticket sales perspective, we travel extremely well for a I-AA squad, but let's face it, we're not gonna bring as many people to Chapel Hill that App State would and there's no way App State would bring as many people to Tiger Stadium as we would.

From a fiduciary standpoint, it makes no sense for either LSU and UNC to send monies out of state, when they've got in-state schools who could use the money...

That being said, we appreciate the opportunity and we're definitely coming to play....

Anonymous said...

I think I speak for all non-tarhole fans when I say, kick their ASS McNeese!

Anonymous said...

So McNeese wherever played some close games and knocked a starter out in another. Congrats. Enjoy your trip out of the boonies when you come to North Carolina. Afterward, go back home and shut up.

Appy St...LSU is going to walk all over you, so quit dreaming, go down there, and take your beating like big boys.

Anonymous said...

For all of the people who continue to harp on UNC and other D-1 A schools for being scared to play App or any other D-1 AA school, answer this for me. If App is so great, why don't they man up and make the move to D-1 A? Then they can play all the big boys they want and we'll see how that turns out. All you App supporters put your $$$ where your mouth is and pony up the money to upgrade facilites and make the jump. It's easy to bust on UNC's record last year, but let's see you play that same schedule and see your record. So you beat Michigan last year - nice job. The sun even shines on a dog's a$$ sometimes, espcecially when it's a little yippy lap dog that no one gives a rat's a$$ about. You also lost to Wofford, so settle down. One win against an average name team doesn't make you a D-1 A program.

crossfire07 said...

Michigan is hardly an "average" with all of their tradition and past CHAMPIONSHIPS. some the tar holes wont ever see so i guess thats makes you "below average" ?

Anonymous said...

I vote that North Carolina is more white trash than Louisiana